tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post116190747869113658..comments2024-01-28T03:35:51.182-05:00Comments on Reassigned Time: "Following Your Bliss"Dr. Crazyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12457967076373916629noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1162239213249245692006-10-30T15:13:00.000-05:002006-10-30T15:13:00.000-05:00Oh -- you know what else students like ours don't ...Oh -- you know what else students like ours don't often know? They don't know that Ph.D. programs accept people with BAs. They think they need to get an MA elsewhere first before applying for the PhD. There's a *lot* they don't know.Dr. Viragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03960384082670286328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1162239082375065902006-10-30T15:11:00.000-05:002006-10-30T15:11:00.000-05:00Dr. Crazy, once again you've written a post I was ...Dr. Crazy, once again you've written a post I was planning to write! Damn you! ;) (Just kidding.) Seriously, our student populations are similar and you've given me some useful perspective for the next time I arrange an "applying to PhD programs" workshop. I just did two this last week, with two other faculty members in each, and I started each session by playing "bad cop" and giving them all the scary statistics. Now I think maybe I hit those scary statistics *too* hard (though my colleagues did their jobs well playing "good cop"). And I don't think any of us made clear that most/all of one's program will be paid for by fellowships and TAships. Gotta remember to do that next time. And I think I was guilty of hitting the "you'll end up an adjunct" button too much -- so much so that one of my colleagues thought I was making the adjuncts themselves (rather than the jobs) sound second-class. Oops.<BR/><BR/>But still, they need to know the realities. And they need not to enter grad school all starry-eyed, thinking it's a glorified book club. Plus, many of my students think that professors a) have it easy, and b) make serious money (as you pointed out, they assume more degrees mean more money). They need to know how hard it is to get in and through grad school and how hard it is to get a job and be an assistant professor, and for what relatively little pay (compared to other professionals) before they put all their misguided hopes into being a prof and have them dashed at various stages. Besides, telling them these things is also good for us -- students will have more awareness of what it takes to *be* us.<BR/><BR/>But. Yeah, I think I hit those points too hard and scared away potential new blood from a profession that could use their insights. Next time I'll reel it in a little!Dr. Viragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03960384082670286328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1162009525236552322006-10-28T00:25:00.000-04:002006-10-28T00:25:00.000-04:00I think you're approach to this is fantastic, Dr. ...I think you're approach to this is fantastic, Dr. C.<BR/><BR/>I'm an undergrad considering going on with grad school when I finish, and I mostly just get smiles and nods whenever I mention that to anyone - by telling these students what's possible, warts and all, you let the tentative dreams become more solid and real, and most of all reachable. But you seem to be careful enough about it that you don't promise wonders for the future that aren't going to be there.<BR/><BR/>Sounds like you're a fantastic support for them both, whether they realise it or not. Good on you!Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04430929897067877179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1161985735828241142006-10-27T17:48:00.000-04:002006-10-27T17:48:00.000-04:00Thanks to Helenesch and to the rest who've complim...Thanks to Helenesch and to the rest who've complimented me on how I handle this. Again, I don't know that my way is THE WAY - and I do second-guess myself - but I do try to be thoughtful about how I advise them about these things and your support means a lot.<BR/><BR/>As for them feeling comfortable sharing their backgrounds/worries, I think a lot of that has to do that I'm very open with them about my own background and some of the insecurities that I felt as a student. They tend to open up a lot more once I tell them that my mom, who was one of ten kids, was the only one of her brothers and sisters to graduate from high school, that there are people in my extended family on welfare, and that I'm definitely a weirdo in my family (even amongst my generation of cousins) for having achieved the level of education I've achieved. Being able to share that experience really does make a difference, and it's one of the reasons why I think it's important for people from a range of backgrounds to enter the academy.<BR/><BR/>Also, H., you are SO RIGHT about needing to tell students that there is money to go to grad school (though admittedly not much of it). This is one of the things I always talk about with students, who often will ask questions about how much tuition will be. <BR/><BR/>(Incidentally, to Estrella: the student to whom I spoke who is the Eng. Ed. major seems to be very intrigued by the idea of grad school and not particularly committed to high school teaching, but felt that even to dream of grad school was beyond his reach because of the expense. I did advise him, though, that there is no reason why he needs to make this decision before graduating and that he may want to try a job teaching high school first as he can always apply for grad school a few years out once he sees what that is like.)<BR/><BR/>And yes, you're right - students who pursue Philosophy do have even fewer options outside of academe, or, rather, they can have fewer options. The thing that's important with English is to develop a range of marketable skills while one is doing one's grad work so that one does have options if the academic route ends up not working out. That's something I talk about a lot with students considering grad school - how to develop skill sets that will allow them to have a range of options during/after their grad education. (Actually, it's something I talk to undergrad students about a lot, too, now that I think about it.)Dr. Crazyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12457967076373916629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1161984959140301212006-10-27T17:35:00.000-04:002006-10-27T17:35:00.000-04:00I think it's wonderful not only that you talk with...I think it's wonderful not only that you talk with your students so honestly about the ups and downs of going to grad school, but also that your students feel comfortable sharing their personal backgrounds and worries with you.<BR/><BR/>One thing I've found is that many students from working-class backgrounds (as well as many others who just don't have professors as parents) have no idea that many students pursuing PhD's in the humanties receive funding and a tuition waiver. Granted, it's not really much money, but it's possible to almost get by on this, at least if you're childless and willing to "live like a student" until you're done. So this is one piece of information (along with the more negative pieces) I am sure to tell folks who're considering grad school.<BR/><BR/>Not that the job market is any worse, but for my philosophy students, there is even *less* option to leave the field with a back up plan. As much as I like teaching, I realized that with a PhD in philosophy and concentration in women's studies, if I failed to get a job after grad school, teaching high school wasn't going to be an easy shift for me.heleneschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00379096203492608139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1161979390365798072006-10-27T16:03:00.000-04:002006-10-27T16:03:00.000-04:00Regarding your promising English Ed student:I'll b...Regarding your promising English Ed student:<BR/><BR/>I'll be graduating in May with my Education degree. While I could (and would like to) go to grad school, my current plan is to gain experience in my field for a few years first. This way, I'll have a better idea of which special area in my field I'd like to focus on for my graduate studies. Plus, I'll have added quality field experience to my resume and earned enough money to start paying off undergraduate student loans. <BR/><BR/>In my long-term plan, I definitely want to teach~ K-12 (my certification) or possibly in Higher Ed (in a teacher-training program). I'm not sure what your student's goals are.Estrellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02611149403567745728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1161971404388717642006-10-27T13:50:00.000-04:002006-10-27T13:50:00.000-04:00Hmmm. Well, I'd agree that students need to get a...Hmmm. Well, I'd agree that students need to get a variety of perspectives. In the chronicle article that I link to (I think), as well as in a couple of the other articles I link to (I know), IA is mentioned, and I also tell students to read around on the Chronicle of Higher education forums and just the CHE in general. If they are interested, they will find these voices. BUT, for initial advice-giving purposes, I try not to overwhelm them with the "you will end up a slave with no health insurance" narrative. 1) That totally sounds disingenuous coming from somebody who did exactly what they are expressing a desire to do and did not end up a slave with no health insurance and 2) I also think that the whole "your education is worth nothing" narrative comes off as really condescending - i.e., your education is worth nothing but MINE was worth LOADS. <BR/><BR/>I guess what I'm saying is this: as a professor, I think it's my job in some respects to distance myself a bit and to present them with information. I also think that students tend to listen more when that information comes from recognizable sources (i.e., the CHE; the NYT; etc.) that are fairly easy to process - at least during their initial thinking. At the end of the day, I don't want to alienate them by presenting them with the darkest possible picture and ONLY the darkest possible picture because if I did that, the likelihood is that they'd never discuss the issue with me again but would go ahead anyway without strong mentorship (which is what I did). I'd rather be a bit more moderate in my approach and keep them under my wing so that I can steer them in a decent direction while at the same time emphasizing what they need to do in order to make the best decisions not only for their educations but for their LIVES. At least that's what I try to do. And if I'm on a soapbox about how they are doomed to fail, I don't think that I'd really be doing it FOR them - and they really should be the point.Dr. Crazyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12457967076373916629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1161959133134990342006-10-27T10:25:00.000-04:002006-10-27T10:25:00.000-04:00Very insightful...I've been talking with students ...Very insightful...I've been talking with students about grad school during advising week and I always struggle. The ones that are easy are the ones who want to go into business or professional fields...they think getting an MA automatically means more money if they do that. So it's easy to say, no, you need 3-5 years of experience before anyone would take you seriously. But the ones that would be good professors? Those are always harder.Artistic Soulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13263759059325566233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1161957648599894782006-10-27T10:00:00.000-04:002006-10-27T10:00:00.000-04:00I have to say that I think you're doing right by y...I have to say that I think you're doing right by your students. When I was applying for MA programs I just didn't get the guidance that I needed (however, I did get more when it came to applying for PhDs). Being honest with your student(s) about the job market is important (I didn't get that until I was in my MA). But, being supportive can make all the difference as well. It took a while for me to find the support, but once I did I appreciated it even more. I applaud you for what you're doing.Dr. Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07579753730772967738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1161954856926620232006-10-27T09:14:00.000-04:002006-10-27T09:14:00.000-04:00I work in a field with a clear professional tie-in...I work in a field with a clear professional tie-in and studenst are prepared to enter the profession by the time they get their BA. I try to actively discourage two types of kids from grad school: those who are just putting off getting a job for a while longer and those who are looking at it because their parents think they should. Honestly, I tell them, you can go get a job or you can spend two more years in school. You will be in the same place career-wise either way, but you will MAKE money with the job.<BR/><BR/>I feel a little guilty discouraging most kids from grad school, since I work with grad students at PrettyGood. But I also honestly feel that most kids are not interested for the right reasons.MommyProfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12040890762575693250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1161950468019960942006-10-27T08:01:00.000-04:002006-10-27T08:01:00.000-04:00xhevahir - I directed him to my professional websi...xhevahir - I directed him to my professional website and not to my blog (which obviously I write under a pseudonym, so that would be counterintuitive). My blogroll is reserved for active blogs - or at the very least tries to be.<BR/><BR/>I'll admit, I also don't direct students considering grad school to IA. I direct them to 3-4 articles, most notably this one that appeared in The Chronicle http://chronicle.com/jobs/2003/06/2003060301c.htm<BR/><BR/>Maybe I should be directing students to IA, but I feel like to do so might be overwhelming to them (in no small part because of the volume of the posts). Ultimately, that blog is her story, and I'm not entirely sure that it would be useful for students trying to make a decision for themselves - at least not initially.Dr. Crazyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12457967076373916629noreply@blogger.com