tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post115976217671869843..comments2024-01-28T03:35:51.182-05:00Comments on Reassigned Time: MentoringDr. Crazyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12457967076373916629noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1159908710731650242006-10-03T16:51:00.000-04:002006-10-03T16:51:00.000-04:00No need to shut up at all, Kate! I'm enjoying the...No need to shut up at all, Kate! I'm enjoying the discussion, and I think others are getting something out of it as well.<BR/><BR/>Re: PhD programs, what my best mentor told me was the following:<BR/><BR/>1) Go where they treat you well during the application process. If they don't treat you well then, you can be certain they'll treat you poorly once you're actually in the program. (Advice I give my students as the first consideration in deciding between acceptances)<BR/><BR/>2) Do not go into any PhD program that doesn't fund you. (Sound advice I think, and advice that I pass on to my students when they're even thinking about where to apply, because the reality is that in English you will most likely have a tough time getting a job when you're done, and it's dumb to go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt.)<BR/><BR/>3)Go to the best school that funds you.<BR/><BR/>In that order.<BR/><BR/>Now, after reading your comment, I realized that while I took that advice, I did not choose the best financial package over #1. Nor did I choose the best school without regard to #1. Instead, I really took all three into account, and that meant I went with the not-best (though not-worst) financial package with what I thought would be the best school for me (I was looking for a small program with a lot of self-direction/not many hoops to jump through). Part of the reason that I think I was able to think about it in the way that I did was because of the sound advice I got from that mentor - and that he really talked with me about my options, even though he knew that if I got into my #1 it would mean that I would leave that institution (where I got my MA). I wonder why more people don't have experiences like that to recount. It's really a shame.Dr. Crazyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12457967076373916629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1159907333317684542006-10-03T16:28:00.000-04:002006-10-03T16:28:00.000-04:00One final thing and then I'll shut up. You said in...One final thing and then I'll shut up. You said in your comment:<BR/><BR/><I>my point is, I'm wondering how much we should talk about "fit" with students when we counsel them about going to grad school. I think most of us tend to tell students to go to the "best" school they get accepted to, but maybe that's actually bad mentoring if we want them to get good mentoring later? Depending on the school that is?<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>I meant to point this out before -- I think it's an excellent point. I went to the "best" school rather that had the best financial package and best name of the places I got in. Another school, with a poorer financial package and less famous name (though I now realize, really a good dept) would have had better mentoring opportunities.<BR/><BR/>The problem is, I felt I had to choose the better financial package. Looking back, my advisor actually did tell me to think harder about the other place I got in and not let the prestige of the place I got in get to me. But it was via email, half-hearted, and with no justification.<BR/><BR/>Of course, in hindsight, I have all the justification I need... sigh.Katehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16995641658376827290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1159900968694846502006-10-03T14:42:00.000-04:002006-10-03T14:42:00.000-04:00See Jane Compute has a post up about mentoring und...See Jane Compute has a post up about mentoring undergraduates. I mention it because it (along with profgrrrrl's post) made me think about my own experience with my senior thesis advisor. The relationship is very different when the work is independent rather than collaborative. <BR/><BR/>I had good mentors, and I do not think I have lived up to their example with my own students, but I am also at a very different type of institution than the ones I attended.luolinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00213308635831376287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1159893009543936542006-10-03T12:30:00.000-04:002006-10-03T12:30:00.000-04:00Hmm.... I think I might do a post about finding me...Hmm.... I think I might do a post about finding mentors, too. What I will say to your specific question, HG, is the following:<BR/><BR/>1) mentors don't necessarily need to be faculty. Is there someone in your program who has written an abstract to submit to a conference before? Asking him/her to see it is a good start.<BR/><BR/>2) If you're thinking of submitting an abstract that relates to work you did in a particular class, make an appointment to meet with the instructor of that class. Go in with a rough sketch of your idea for what you would present/include in the abstract, and explain to the prof. that you had done the original work in his/her course and were wondering if you could get feedback about how best to develop it into a conference presentation and about how to present that in abstract form. If you go in armed with having already done some work, people are always more helpful.<BR/><BR/>But yes, I may write a bit more about the mentoring and how to find good mentors....Dr. Crazyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12457967076373916629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1159885960417350032006-10-03T10:32:00.000-04:002006-10-03T10:32:00.000-04:00i'm doing a whole post on this, later today I thin...i'm doing a whole post on this, later today I think.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1159847277713621012006-10-02T23:47:00.000-04:002006-10-02T23:47:00.000-04:00I wish I could find a good mentor where I'm at, bu...I wish I could find a good mentor where I'm at, but I'm not sure I even know how to go about it (our advisors are pretty useless sadly). <BR/><BR/>This also reminds me I need to start thinking about sumbiting an abstract (not to mention figuing our all those lovely things like 'how to write one', 'how to sumbit one', and 'can I really do this'?)History Geekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04253687974407447459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1159840884950810342006-10-02T22:01:00.000-04:002006-10-02T22:01:00.000-04:00I agree on all points. There's wide variation in t...I agree on all points. There's wide variation in the social sciences, but it's at a different point along the spectrum than the humanities, just like the physical and life sciences likely fall along a different part of the spectrum. In my field we have two models: have your advisor hand you a project and micromanage your work as a subset of his/her own, or set you free to do your own thing; both have advantages and disadvantages. My advisor is of the latter model, which is similar to what you describe in your field, in that we can only get feedback when we have strong mentoring relationships. But those really aren't valued in my dept.<BR/><BR/>Always glad to have more people thinking well about this issue -- I don't think we'll ever overdo it!Katehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16995641658376827290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1159838425189450012006-10-02T21:20:00.000-04:002006-10-02T21:20:00.000-04:00Thanks for your comment, Kate. I think you make s...Thanks for your comment, Kate. I think you make some good points about how institutional politics/structures can (negatively) affect even a well-intentioned faculty member's attempt to mentor students. I'm wondering, though, after reading your commment about the following:<BR/><BR/>1) I wonder how much of this is discipline-specific. I have the sense that in my discipline there may be more of a "culture of mentoring," maybe because of the influence on composition on the discipline? Because we work independently and so the only way to get feedback on our work is to have strong relationships with mentors? That is NOT to say that there aren't some really shitty mentors in my discipline. It's just something I'm thinking through.<BR/><BR/>2) I also wonder how mentoring works in different disciplines where faculty need to go off and do field research, etc., which is pretty unusual in my discipline. yes, profs get sabbaticals every now and again when they're finishing a book, but the norm is that they're pretty much available, unless they're super-duper-famous. If I wanted to talk to my advisor about something, all I had to do was go out and smoke with him. (Of course, this meant that in order to be mentored I had to smoke, which means that I had to kill myself in order to get what I needed, but nevermind that :) ) <BR/><BR/>3) I'm also wondering how much of this has to do with the structure and politics of individual departments. I did my grad work in a fairly small department, and I think that to some extent this contributed to the positive mentoring experiences that I had there. Now, that's not to say it was a touchy feely department. Professors did not take grad students to conferences, mentor them through publishing, etc. In some respects, they practiced a kind of "grow up and figure it out" approach, which worked for me, but it didn't work for other people in my program. Anyway, I'm rambling, but my point is, I'm wondering how much we should talk about "fit" with students when we counsel them about going to grad school. I think most of us tend to tell students to go to the "best" school they get accepted to, but maybe that's actually bad mentoring if we want them to get good mentoring later? Depending on the school that is?<BR/><BR/>Anyway, my thoughts here are scattered. But I'm really glad that you responded to the post and offered your perspective.Dr. Crazyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12457967076373916629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20099192.post-1159837579817516462006-10-02T21:06:00.000-04:002006-10-02T21:06:00.000-04:00I think the points you outline of what makes a goo...I think the points you outline of what makes a good mentor are great.<BR/><BR/>In my experience, unfortunately, the power dynamics of the university are themselves infantilizing. When you are in a position where you are made to feel worth less, I don't know how much of a role you can play.<BR/><BR/>I've had no direction in the pursuit of original research and a doctorate. That could be mistaken for agency, and in some ways I did have agency. I did get to decide to do my research the way I wanted to, and I'm a pretty headstrong person, so who knows if I would have listened to a mentor who wanted me to do it any other way.<BR/><BR/>But in the places where I was less certain, where I tried to solicit mentoring, the people I thought I could count on scattered to the wind. No one had time for me, because they were in the field, writing a book, doing the last bits of an administrative position, or coming up for tenure.<BR/><BR/>I don't think I didn't get the mentoring relationship I wanted because I didn't fight for it, nor because I wasn't worth mentoring. With a few faculty (unfortunately not my advisor), I'm also certain they wanted to mentor me.<BR/><BR/>I think the reason I did not get the mentoring I wanted was that academia -- particularly the institutions I have been in which are private institutions -- beats people into such a pulp that no matter how well-intentioned they are they cannot have the attention and mentorship they want to have. They are so freaked out by publications, keeping a lab running, and getting tenure that the simplest, most human things got left behind years ago.<BR/><BR/>This is why some institutionalization needs to happen, why mentoring needs to be made a more explicit component of faculty jobs, why we need training. For many people I know, if they are not reminded to be human and do the basic things for their mentees they are supposed to, they won't. If the shit doesn't hit the fan and the student stumbles through, that's good enough for them. That's just not good enough for me.Katehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16995641658376827290noreply@blogger.com